Three days ago I participated in another Navpoc fleet, approximately 40 strong, with 4 Triage Archons as our Logistics. The target was a NPSI roam consisting of roughly 150 artillery battlecruisers (mostly Hurricanes). So we are outnumbered by about 1:3 ratio and they had insane amounts of volley damage. What advantage did we have? Well, in Snuffed Out its very strongly recommended, if not a requirement, to have a High-Grade Slave set in your skull. The extra armor buffer gained allows for insane tanks on ships (for an example, our Navpocs with links and double plate fit had a staggering 404k EHP). Our other advantage the other fleet gave to us, as the Hurricanes were double Invulnerability Field and double Extender and no Propulsion mod. The EM hole was not plugged (which is the main damage Navpocs do) and no Propulsion mod made sure that there was no way for them to get under our guns.
So we Titan bridge to a system to intercept their fleet, setup on the gate, and wait for them to come through. Right on schedule too. You could barely get locks in time to kill the Hurricanes they were dying so fast because of our damage profile. After 49 of their ships (5.7 billion) were reduced to dust they extract and get off grid. Snuffed Out in returned suffered 4 losses (2.7 billion). Our more expensive ships helped us win the fight but it burns when one goes down since its expensive, and its easier to have the Battle Report quickly dwindle from a win to a loss.
After the fight people talked about it as expected. It was alot closer of a fight than it felt while in it. As one person said, he was in full High-Grade Slaves and still got volleyed into 25% armor before Triage brought him back up. Without our Slave Sets, we would have most likely died in a fire.
#slavessavelives
Blöd
Tuesday, December 16, 2014
Friday, December 12, 2014
EFT: Beam Legion vs Rail Proteus
When I flew with Protean Concept, our go to ship was, big surprise, a Proteus. We kind of lived up to our name in that regard. Our main ship that we flew all the time was our trusty Rail Proteus, which offered the range (70km+) to give good flexibility in fights and still suitable DPS in order to break people's tanks. Some versions of the fit could get over 850 DPS unheated (including drone DPS), albeit at the cost of tracking speed.
Now that I fly with Snuffed Out, Beam Legions are the rave over here. We still have a Rail Proteus Doctorine, but I have yet to fly it. Most of the time Protei are delegated into a tackle roll in a fleet and not a main DPS component. I set out to discover why this was. The following are the two base fits I used for comparison, fits are altered as stated from the base fit throughout the following text.
[Legion, Beam Legion (610 DPS/124k EHP)]
Damage Control II
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
10MN Afterburner II
Warp Disruptor II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
[Proteus, 250 Rail Proteus (705 DPS/137k EHP)]
Damage Control II
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
10MN Afterburner II
Warp Disruptor II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Offensive - Dissonic Encoding Platform
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
So lets get started with the comparison!
The most obvious difference was the change in damage type: Thermal and Kinetic to EM and Thermal. On the surface you might think that Legions just have a slight edge at cracking shield doctrines, and that is correct, but you have more advantages than just that. First, lets analyse whats the primary and secondary damage types to deal against targets.
VS Armor
VS Shield
Damage Types Summary
SUMMARY
As you can see, resistance holes are most often either in one of the extremes. Even in armor tanks, EM is a secondary resist hole 3 out of 5 times, and since the primary hole is usually plugged (Amarr plugs their Thermal and Gallente plugs their Explosive), this leaves EM damage to be the best to deal actually against those ship types. So over all, Beam Legions have an advantage with damage types of EM and Thermal. On the downside of this, Rail Proteus over all do more paper DPS to make up for it.
The next obvious difference arose with damage projection and application. By far, the Legion out ranged the Proteus, before any module modifications it can touch 81km optimal and with two optimal enhanced Tracking Computers it can reach out to 105km optimal, far surpassing Railguns on the Proteus. Let us also note that in order to reach these ranges that the Proteus would need to fit a Dissolution Sequencer Subsystem (Electronic) in order to get the lock range plus two Tracking Computers and a Tracking Enhancer, and even then its only 91km optimal with 41km falloff. So by far the Legion out-projects the Proteus. How about application and tracking speed then? The majority of Rail Proteus fits use the Dissonic Encoding Platform (Offensive) for the tracking bonus. The occasional few use Hybrid Propulsion Armature (Offensive) for a drone bay and extra paper DPS, but most (including Snuffed Out's and Protean Concept's) don't use it because the lost DPS from the tracking nerf plus the fact that most drones get smartbombed by any competent fleet, makes the subsystem of little use. So now that we have our subsystem chosen, the tracking speeds that are spit back before tracking computers and enhancers are .0464 for the Legion and .0440 for the Proteus, a 5.3% difference favoring the Legion. Going off of the standardized fits above though, the Legion gets .0603 tracking pushing the difference to 31.2% in favor of the Legion.
At this point, we need to take a step back and ask why the Legion gets such better tracking. The answer lies in the two (arguably three) utility mid slots the Legion has. The Proteus has several options available to it to catch up in tracking. Probably the easiest is swap a Mag Stab to a Tracking Enhancer, you loose DPS for tracking and range. You still only acquire .0482 tracking, which is still unsatisfactory compared to a Legion. A more sacrificial solution is to unfit the Cap Booster and fit a Tracking Computer, but this is still less tracking than a single TC Legion and you sacrifice your cap booster opening you up to neut warfare. A similar solution involves fitting the Gravitational Propulsion (Propulsion) subsystem to gain a mid slot at the cost of a low slot. So you sacrifice raw DPS for more tracking. This final one still puts you at less tracking than a Legion, but you still retain the balance of having Cap Boosters.
Those utility mid slots that the Legion naturally has plus the already better base tracking speed allows it to get much better projection and application than the Rail Proteus without nearly any sacrifices. The utility mids add up to more than just projection and application though, they let utility EWar to be fitted at nearly no sacrifice. This ranges from Damps, Tracking Distruptors, Target Painters, Remote Sensor Boosters, and Remote ECCM. A Legion can easily fit a Cap Booster to protect itself from neuts plus two Damps to spread around on enemy ships, or two RECCMs to keep Logistics from getting jammed, or two ReSeBos to let Logistics lock and land reps quicker, possibilities are endless with utility mids and the Legion has that distinct advantage over the Proteus in that regard.
Now that we have the big heavy hitters out of the way, we can add up small differences they have.
Now that I fly with Snuffed Out, Beam Legions are the rave over here. We still have a Rail Proteus Doctorine, but I have yet to fly it. Most of the time Protei are delegated into a tackle roll in a fleet and not a main DPS component. I set out to discover why this was. The following are the two base fits I used for comparison, fits are altered as stated from the base fit throughout the following text.
[Legion, Beam Legion (610 DPS/124k EHP)]
Damage Control II
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
10MN Afterburner II
Warp Disruptor II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam M
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
[Proteus, 250 Rail Proteus (705 DPS/137k EHP)]
Damage Control II
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
10MN Afterburner II
Warp Disruptor II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
250mm Railgun II, Javelin M
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Offensive - Dissonic Encoding Platform
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
So lets get started with the comparison!
The most obvious difference was the change in damage type: Thermal and Kinetic to EM and Thermal. On the surface you might think that Legions just have a slight edge at cracking shield doctrines, and that is correct, but you have more advantages than just that. First, lets analyse whats the primary and secondary damage types to deal against targets.
VS Armor
- T1: Explosive then Kinetic
- T2
- Amarr: Thermal then EM
- Gallente: Explosive then EM
- Caldari: Explosive then EM
- Minmatar: Explosive then Kinetic
VS Shield
- T1: EM then Thermal
- T2
- Amarr: EM then Thermal
- Gallente: EM then Explosive
- Caldari: EM then Explosive
- Minmatar: Kinetic then Explosive
Damage Types Summary
- Primary
- 4 Explosive
- 1 Kinetic
- 1 Thermal
- 4 EM
- Secondary
- 3 Explosive
- 2 Kinetic
- 2 Thermal
- 3 EM
SUMMARY
- 7 Explosive
- 3 Kinetic
- 3 Thermal
- 7 EM
As you can see, resistance holes are most often either in one of the extremes. Even in armor tanks, EM is a secondary resist hole 3 out of 5 times, and since the primary hole is usually plugged (Amarr plugs their Thermal and Gallente plugs their Explosive), this leaves EM damage to be the best to deal actually against those ship types. So over all, Beam Legions have an advantage with damage types of EM and Thermal. On the downside of this, Rail Proteus over all do more paper DPS to make up for it.
The next obvious difference arose with damage projection and application. By far, the Legion out ranged the Proteus, before any module modifications it can touch 81km optimal and with two optimal enhanced Tracking Computers it can reach out to 105km optimal, far surpassing Railguns on the Proteus. Let us also note that in order to reach these ranges that the Proteus would need to fit a Dissolution Sequencer Subsystem (Electronic) in order to get the lock range plus two Tracking Computers and a Tracking Enhancer, and even then its only 91km optimal with 41km falloff. So by far the Legion out-projects the Proteus. How about application and tracking speed then? The majority of Rail Proteus fits use the Dissonic Encoding Platform (Offensive) for the tracking bonus. The occasional few use Hybrid Propulsion Armature (Offensive) for a drone bay and extra paper DPS, but most (including Snuffed Out's and Protean Concept's) don't use it because the lost DPS from the tracking nerf plus the fact that most drones get smartbombed by any competent fleet, makes the subsystem of little use. So now that we have our subsystem chosen, the tracking speeds that are spit back before tracking computers and enhancers are .0464 for the Legion and .0440 for the Proteus, a 5.3% difference favoring the Legion. Going off of the standardized fits above though, the Legion gets .0603 tracking pushing the difference to 31.2% in favor of the Legion.
At this point, we need to take a step back and ask why the Legion gets such better tracking. The answer lies in the two (arguably three) utility mid slots the Legion has. The Proteus has several options available to it to catch up in tracking. Probably the easiest is swap a Mag Stab to a Tracking Enhancer, you loose DPS for tracking and range. You still only acquire .0482 tracking, which is still unsatisfactory compared to a Legion. A more sacrificial solution is to unfit the Cap Booster and fit a Tracking Computer, but this is still less tracking than a single TC Legion and you sacrifice your cap booster opening you up to neut warfare. A similar solution involves fitting the Gravitational Propulsion (Propulsion) subsystem to gain a mid slot at the cost of a low slot. So you sacrifice raw DPS for more tracking. This final one still puts you at less tracking than a Legion, but you still retain the balance of having Cap Boosters.
Those utility mid slots that the Legion naturally has plus the already better base tracking speed allows it to get much better projection and application than the Rail Proteus without nearly any sacrifices. The utility mids add up to more than just projection and application though, they let utility EWar to be fitted at nearly no sacrifice. This ranges from Damps, Tracking Distruptors, Target Painters, Remote Sensor Boosters, and Remote ECCM. A Legion can easily fit a Cap Booster to protect itself from neuts plus two Damps to spread around on enemy ships, or two RECCMs to keep Logistics from getting jammed, or two ReSeBos to let Logistics lock and land reps quicker, possibilities are endless with utility mids and the Legion has that distinct advantage over the Proteus in that regard.
Now that we have the big heavy hitters out of the way, we can add up small differences they have.
- With the base fits above, the Beam Legion gets approximately double the Sensor Strength (The Proteus can exceed this but only if it sacrifices the point range bonus from its Electronic Subsystem)
- The Proteus has 13k more EHP (un-linked and un-implanted) but 110 less DPS Omni-Tank when being repaired by a Guardian
- Using the base fits above the Legion is 94m/sec faster
- Using the base fits above the Legion is 21m sig radius smaller
- Very minor point since markets are always in flux but currently the Legion is cheaper than the Proteus
-----
So what does this mean in conclusion?
- The Legion has a better Damage Profile
- The Legion has better Projection
- The Legion has better Application
- The Legion has more Utility Mid Slots
- The Legion has better Sensor Strength (with the exception listed above)
- The Proteus has more EHP
- The Legion has better Tank
- The Proteus has better Tackle Capabilities
- The Legion is Faster and Smaller
I sometimes don't know how to count, but I think that is more advantages to the Legion than the Proteus, placing it significantly higher on the list of being a better, what I like to call, Longbow. That is not to say the Rail Proteus is not good, but if someone asked me what to fly or train towards, a Beam Legion or Rail Proteus, I would choose a Beam Legion without hesitation.
Blöd
AAR: Barleguet Brawl
So there was an approximate 100 vs 150 slugfest several days ago in Barleguet over several POCOs.
It was quite an interesting fight, and by far the biggest fight I have ever been a part of as far as the number of players were concerned. I can't say I had fun to be perfectly honest, it just wasn't the type of gameplay I was interested in: locking targets and hitting F1. On the other hand, I felt awesome flying a Navy Apocalypse with a Slave Set, which is something I would have never have flown in WHs, as it would have been instantly countered with blap Dreads and restricted by mass limitations. So, different was... different, not bad or good really, just different. Anyway, into the actual fight.
I'm not entirely sure what got our fleet into motion initially, think it was a request of help from Overload Everything. We form up our Navy Apocalypse fleet with ~8 Guardians I believe, with some tackle Protei and Lokis and start burning over. Overload Everything filled up with similar fleet composition, and we met up in Barleguet as intel streamed in about Shadow Cartel [SC] fleet movements. They were getting together a 50 strong Rail Proteus fleet on a Titan and prepping to bridge in, which they did one jump out as we were burning a POCO. So now they jump into system and warp to us as a group.
Opening volleys blast the shit out of SC's Guardian wing, while according to our own Logistics wing, we held just fine. It was at this point the fight escalated with approximately 20-25 mixed carriers from SC and Cynosural Field Theory [MOROS]. It was this point that we forgot the shattered Guardian wing of SC and started priming their Protei and lighting them up like firecrackers, our Logistics wing still reporting holding alright, especially with two Triage Archons brought in as well to help, though those eventually die in the end. We now have a Cyno Jammer out as well now, preventing more reinforcements from being jumped/bridged in. After a while though it dies and approximately 20 SC and MOROS Dreads jump in and start blaping our Navpocs off the field. It was at this point we decide to extract, as there was no way Battleships could survive the DPS of that number of Dreads.
Battle Report
It was an, interesting fight, and definitely different compared to what I have done in the past. On one hand I felt awesome flying pimpy ships and an expensive pod but on the other I felt a bit like an F1 monkey, a gameplay style I detest.
I like to think that trial periods for new people in corps are for the benefit of both the corporation and the new member. Both need to decide if the corporation/person is a nice fit for the other, and so far I am still deciding, but I have yet to be impressed enough to really make me stick.
Blöd
It was quite an interesting fight, and by far the biggest fight I have ever been a part of as far as the number of players were concerned. I can't say I had fun to be perfectly honest, it just wasn't the type of gameplay I was interested in: locking targets and hitting F1. On the other hand, I felt awesome flying a Navy Apocalypse with a Slave Set, which is something I would have never have flown in WHs, as it would have been instantly countered with blap Dreads and restricted by mass limitations. So, different was... different, not bad or good really, just different. Anyway, into the actual fight.
I'm not entirely sure what got our fleet into motion initially, think it was a request of help from Overload Everything. We form up our Navy Apocalypse fleet with ~8 Guardians I believe, with some tackle Protei and Lokis and start burning over. Overload Everything filled up with similar fleet composition, and we met up in Barleguet as intel streamed in about Shadow Cartel [SC] fleet movements. They were getting together a 50 strong Rail Proteus fleet on a Titan and prepping to bridge in, which they did one jump out as we were burning a POCO. So now they jump into system and warp to us as a group.
Opening volleys blast the shit out of SC's Guardian wing, while according to our own Logistics wing, we held just fine. It was at this point the fight escalated with approximately 20-25 mixed carriers from SC and Cynosural Field Theory [MOROS]. It was this point that we forgot the shattered Guardian wing of SC and started priming their Protei and lighting them up like firecrackers, our Logistics wing still reporting holding alright, especially with two Triage Archons brought in as well to help, though those eventually die in the end. We now have a Cyno Jammer out as well now, preventing more reinforcements from being jumped/bridged in. After a while though it dies and approximately 20 SC and MOROS Dreads jump in and start blaping our Navpocs off the field. It was at this point we decide to extract, as there was no way Battleships could survive the DPS of that number of Dreads.
Battle Report
It was an, interesting fight, and definitely different compared to what I have done in the past. On one hand I felt awesome flying pimpy ships and an expensive pod but on the other I felt a bit like an F1 monkey, a gameplay style I detest.
I like to think that trial periods for new people in corps are for the benefit of both the corporation and the new member. Both need to decide if the corporation/person is a nice fit for the other, and so far I am still deciding, but I have yet to be impressed enough to really make me stick.
Blöd
Sunday, December 7, 2014
New Tickers
Been quite a while since the last post, and this one will be brief.
The experiment that is the Protean Concept Alliance is no more. The two groups involved, Transcendent Sedition and Task Force Proteus, could not work together well enough to make it in C5 space. Reasons? Multiple.
1) First and foremost, both CEOs were essentially AWOL and not being productive in any means.
2) Dead weight from our members, too many 'old friends' that were absolutely worthless.
3) We are terrible and lacked experience to make C5 space fun for our members.
The good members are being rounded up by the faithful Ilaister and held together, for those who wish to stay in wormhole space anyway. I, myself, think that after four years of wormhole space (I've been in it since month number three) its time for a change of pace. I didn't want to do blobbly, TiDi infested, Sov grinding, renter space null sec. And I found no interest in high sec because... eh... well... is high sec...
So low sec it is, and I have since been recruited into Doughboys, a Corporation within Snuffed Out Alliance. Will I ever make a return to wormhole space? Maybe, but it will not be anytime soon, as I feel I need a nice long rest (also experience what it is to not be a Director again).
Blöd
The experiment that is the Protean Concept Alliance is no more. The two groups involved, Transcendent Sedition and Task Force Proteus, could not work together well enough to make it in C5 space. Reasons? Multiple.
1) First and foremost, both CEOs were essentially AWOL and not being productive in any means.
2) Dead weight from our members, too many 'old friends' that were absolutely worthless.
3) We are terrible and lacked experience to make C5 space fun for our members.
The good members are being rounded up by the faithful Ilaister and held together, for those who wish to stay in wormhole space anyway. I, myself, think that after four years of wormhole space (I've been in it since month number three) its time for a change of pace. I didn't want to do blobbly, TiDi infested, Sov grinding, renter space null sec. And I found no interest in high sec because... eh... well... is high sec...
So low sec it is, and I have since been recruited into Doughboys, a Corporation within Snuffed Out Alliance. Will I ever make a return to wormhole space? Maybe, but it will not be anytime soon, as I feel I need a nice long rest (also experience what it is to not be a Director again).
Blöd
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